{"id":25308,"date":"2022-05-03T13:51:13","date_gmt":"2022-05-03T20:51:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.pbs.org\/independentlens\/?post_type=blog&p=25308"},"modified":"2023-02-27T20:46:15","modified_gmt":"2023-02-27T20:46:15","slug":"a-path-to-forgiveness-complicated-by-race-and-justice-a-conversation-with-claude-motley-and-brad-lichtenstein","status":"publish","type":"blog","link":"https:\/\/dipsy.pbs.org\/independentlens\/blog\/a-path-to-forgiveness-complicated-by-race-and-justice-a-conversation-with-claude-motley-and-brad-lichtenstein\/","title":{"rendered":"A Path to Forgiveness Complicated by Race and Justice: A Conversation with Claude Motley and Brad Lichtenstein"},"content":{"rendered":"

Filmmaker Brad Lichtenstein<\/strong> was nominated for a News & Documentary Emmy Award for the<\/span> Independent Lens<\/span><\/i>\/PBS film <\/span>As Goes Janesville<\/span><\/i>, which was about a blue-collar town struggling to renew itself. His documentary <\/span>Messwood<\/span><\/i> was about a high school football team made up of kids from two different communities\u2014one suburban and white, and the other urban and Black. His empathetic eye lets his characters tell their own stories.<\/span><\/p>\n

In <\/span>When Claude Got Shot<\/i><\/b><\/a>,<\/i><\/b> Lichtenstein essentially collaborated with his film’s subject Claudiare “Claude” Motley<\/strong>, a friend from well before Claude went through the horrific event at the center of the documentary. Motley was visiting his hometown Milwaukee when the law student was shot in the face by a 15-year-old boy attempting to carjack Motley’s car. The effects of this gun violence upend Claude\u2019s life, yet he still finds himself torn between punishment and mercy. The central struggle of the film is how\u2014or even if\u2014a person can forgive an attacker after getting to know the attacker\u2019s own history.<\/span><\/p>\n

In that spirit, Brad and Claude collaborated on an interview with each other here to really dive deeper into why they wanted to tell Claude’s painful but powerful story together, what it meant for Claude to see his story on screen, and what they taught each other. The film’s “star” also asks the filmmaker how <\/span>he <\/span><\/i>felt, as a white filmmaker, telling a story so intimate to a Black man on a subject so important to the Black community.<\/span><\/p>\n

As far as how Claude is doing as of this moment, he writes, “<\/span>I am doing well. Right now I am working with The League as we structure an impact campaign to use the film to move people to actionable solutions to gun violence and spotlight the need for community-based solutions to crime. I am also working with our law firm on many civil law and immigration cases.”<\/span><\/p>\n

Read on for a conversation between filmmaker and subject:<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Filmmaker

Filmmaker Brad Lichtenstein, at left, interviewing Claude Motley.<\/p><\/div>\n

Brad: Why did you want to make this documentary and share this story?<\/b><\/p>\n

Claude: <\/b>The main reason I wanted to share my story is because of my love for Milwaukee, and all my family and friends that reside there. I am very familiar with the struggles of living in one of the most segregated cities in America, along with the environment that creates. Gun violence has always been one of the most devastating ills suffered by my community. My goal was to let people see me as a person, not as a news story, a headline, or a statistic.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

After surviving the shooting and driving myself to the hospital, I didn\u2019t want people to see me as a victim, but as a survivor willing to do what I can to effect a change. I wanted to document my journey as one testament to the experience of gun violence, and the resiliency to deal with its effects. Also, I wanted to show with enough compassion and understanding [that] I would be able to find forgiveness in my heart.<\/span><\/p>\n

Brad:\u00a0 What was your feeling when you learned that your shooter was a 15-year-old boy?<\/b><\/p>\n

Claude: <\/b>When I found out that the person who shot me was 15, I was shocked, saddened, and angry. Before the shooting, I was able to get a glance at Nathan when he got out of the car. I knew from his body type that he was young, but I did not anticipate he was that young. I understood that Milwaukee poses many threats, but I would have never thought I would be almost killed by the hands of a child.<\/span><\/p>\n

I was mad at everyone involved. My thinking at the time was, what type of city would allow children to be out on crime sprees without intervention or repercussions to curtail their behavior. Yet, at the same time I also found out about his condition after being shot, and it hurt me that the bad choices he was making almost caused him to lose his own life. The frustration of experiencing this vicious cycle of pain and violence that almost claimed two lives in two days was overwhelming.<\/span><\/p>\n

Brad: Can you talk about the tension you felt between wanting to hold Nathan accountable and your desire not to feed into an unjust system that incarcerates so many young Black boys and men?<\/b><\/p>\n

Claude: <\/b>I had a lot of apprehension about the judicial process from the very beginning, even though I was the one looking for justice. The speed in which they had a suspect for my shooting raised my suspicions, although Nathan was caught by good police work. Still, the inequities of the judicial system are well documented. Milwaukee is the worst city in the nation in incarcerating black males, with 1 out of 8 working-age black men in prison. The constant fear is that this institution has lost sight of the purpose of the prison system to rehabilitate its prisoners.<\/span><\/p>\n

Instead, many men have had numerous years taken away from them during vital times when they could be upstanding contributors to society. While Nathan was in the juvenile court system, I felt that the circumstances did not address the severity of Nathan\u2019s actions. This was proven by the multiple violations of his conditions. Once in adult court, I was concerned about finding a balance point between punishment and rehabilitation versus revenge in the name of society\u2019s interest. Although my sentence recommendation was only taken into consideration, I felt it was important to speak to the idea of consequences with compassion and [be] given the opportunity to change.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Nathan,

Nathan with attorney Michael Hart.<\/p><\/div>\n

Brad: You talk about forgiveness in the film, Claude. What does forgiveness mean for you and in this context?<\/b><\/p>\n

Claude: <\/b>The concept of forgiveness is taught to us as a response to an apology, but we soon learn it is a much more complex theory depending on the pain inflicted. The physical and psychological trauma I suffered was devastating, but I had to understand the circumstances of my situation. There were many failures that contributed to me being shot, and Nathan was not responsible for all of them. Nathan apologized for his actions and has been suffering through the consequences. As a child, that was all I could ask of him, and the rest of his debt he owes [to] himself to become a better man.<\/span><\/p>\n

Aside from Nathan\u2019s actions, I\u2019ve had to refocus myself on the contributing factors that cause a child to have the ability to pick up a gun and commit such a horrible crime. I knew my healing would come as I positioned myself to effect changes to some of the issues that cause gun violence in my community.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Brad:\u00a0 Can you describe what you felt when you finally watched the documentary, which took five years to make?<\/b><\/p>\n

Claude: <\/b>It is hard for me to describe the emotions I had watching myself on the screen. I never saw this project to be about me, but a story of three lives intertwined by a series of unfortunate events. I even fought with [you] on the title of the film. Watching the film brought back a flood of emotions. Highs and lows, triumphs and failures, but a willingness to continue to fight.<\/span><\/p>\n

Through all my struggles the constant love that was shown to me was overwhelming. I approached this as one story out of thousands that needed to be heard, but the amplification of my voice on that screen was humbling. But the main thing I thought after watching that film was \u201cman, that was a lot of Claude.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Brad: What do you think the process of making the film taught you about yourself?<\/b><\/p>\n

Claude: <\/b>While making the film I found out many things about myself. The first thing is that I am a very lucky man. I have a wonderful, loving family and great, reliable friends. Deep down I\u2019m a good person, but I always have to work on being better. Self-reflection is a tough pill to swallow, and I have no shortage of flaws and shortcomings. Still, I have the courage to stand for what I believe in and the ability to fight for what I know is right.<\/span><\/p>\n